Circular Strategies Podcast: Episode 1 – Embracing Circularity with Tim Ridderbos
Listen to the Circular Strategies Podcast on YouTube and all major podcast platforms.
In the inaugural episode of the Circular Strategies podcast, Bob Alvarez sits down with Tim Ridderbos, General Manager of Circular by Shapiro, a pioneering leader in sustainability and recycling. Tim shares his journey from being a Caterpillar salesman to a key figure in Shapiro’s sustainability initiatives, focusing on circular economy practices, innovative recycling solutions, and the future of sustainable manufacturing.
Highlights:
- Tim’s Journey into Sustainability: Learn how Tim transitioned from the metals industry to leading sustainable practices at Shapiro.
- Circular Economy at Shapiro: Explore how Circular by Shapiro is transforming waste management with a network of sustainability partners.
- Winning the Global Sustainability Award: Discover how Shapiro’s innovative recycling initiatives earned them a prestigious award.
- Personal Passion for Sustainability: Tim shares how his love for the outdoors and family fuels his commitment to environmental responsibility.
- Data-Driven Solutions: The importance of data in creating effective recycling and sustainability strategies.
Key Quotes:
- “Recycling is not just about reducing waste; it’s about creating a sustainable future for the next generations.”
- “Circularity means reusing materials over and over, minimizing waste, and maximizing resources.”
- “Our mission is to Make the Planet Better Together, leveraging our partnerships and expertise.”
Links:
Takeaways:
- Holistic Approach to Recycling: Circular by Shapiro goes beyond traditional recycling, focusing on reuse and refurbishment.
- Sustainability as a Core Value: Shapiro’s commitment to sustainability is driven by a culture of innovation and responsibility.
- Leveraging Data for Improvement: Accurate data and analytics are crucial in optimizing waste streams and reducing landfill impact.
- Engaging the Next Generation: As more young leaders prioritize sustainability, the demand for circular solutions continues to grow.
- Global Impact and Innovation: By fostering partnerships and embracing new technologies, Shapiro is leading the charge in global sustainability.
Chapters:
- 00:00 Introduction and Tim’s Background
- 02:25 Shifting Focus to Circular Economy
- 04:59 Winning the Sustainability Award
- 06:06 Personal Connection to the Environment
- 10:03 Embracing a Circular Mindset
- 14:01 Building a Network of Sustainability Partners
- 15:22 Using Data to Drive Sustainability
- 18:39 Comprehensive Waste Management Solutions
- 20:11 Future Goals for Circular by Shapiro
- 27:59 Innovative Recycling Practices
- 30:44 Education and Awareness Initiatives
- 35:12 Importance of Collaborating with Partners
- 41:49 Preparing for a Sustainable Future
Transcript
Bob Alvarez (00:01.639) Welcome, and thank you for joining the Circular Strategies Podcast, Tim.
Tim Ridderbos (00:06.855) Hey, my pleasure; I’m looking forward to it.
Bob Alvarez (00:10.119): So Tim, why don’t you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
Tim Ridderbos (00:14.965) Yeah, so I’m Tim Ridderbos, born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri. I got into the recycling and sustainability business just over seven years ago. I was recruited by Bob. I was his Caterpillar salesman, selling equipment to Shapiro and others in the industry. I didn’t know much about this industry or what happens to all the materials we use throughout our lives.
It really opened my eyes. I started here, and Bob sent me through a six-month training course. I began by sweeping the floors in the plants, operating some of the equipment I had sold, running balers, and hand sorting. I even spent a week as a plant manager in our mobile yard. Unlike many in this industry who were born into it, I got a bottom-up opportunity to learn about this business. I started as a national account manager, helping big multi-location industrial manufacturers sync their programs across multiple locations.
We have ten physical locations with Shapiro, from St. Louis in the north down to El Paso and past Atlanta. Our multi-location manufacturers have locations from coast to coast, Canada to Mexico, and needed more help than we could provide with our physical footprint. That’s what birthed the idea of Circular and what we’re doing today—developing processes and partners to create a network and ecosystem of sustainability partners serving our multi-location manufacturers across North America. So, for the past few years, I’ve been functioning as the GM of the Circular business by Shapiro.
Bob Alvarez (02:25.767) So, how did you come to be involved in the circular journey? How did that happen?
Tim Ridderbos (02:34.741): When I started here, Bob, you were a couple of years before me. We were metals-focused—Shapiro is a 120-year-old company, and all we thought about was metal. We only dealt with paper, plastic, wood, or cardboard when we had to. But then, we started hearing different conversations from our large multi-location manufacturing customers about sustainability. One of our customer service reps had good visibility to the needs of a customer. This customer had a huge number of trash pickups every year. They had logistics problems and needed equipment to handle the stream of material better, looking for dollar savings and wanting to get everything out of the landfill. This was very far removed from what we were used to doing.
However, the culture at Shapiro is about seeking challenges, breaking through norms, doing things differently, and being willing to take risks. Our team jumped in and helped this customer go from 450 trash pickups a year to 45 by recycling cardboard and optimizing payloads. We eliminated over 400 diesel-burning trash trucks going to the landfill. The savings from these reduced trips were in the mid-six figures. We weren’t aiming for an award, but Shapiro won the 2020 Global Sustainability Award from this big publicly traded customer. This was an eye-opener for us. In the midst of the pandemic, we realized the potential in sustainability, not just with this customer but with every customer we had. This changed the direction of the company.
Bob Alvarez (05:35.271): Thank you.
Bob Alvarez (05:56.007): You’re obviously very passionate about it. But on a more personal level, why is this important to you? Why does this connect with what you’re doing?
Tim Ridderbos (06:06.677) I’m a big outdoorsman. If I’m not in the office, I like to be on a bike ride with my family, hunting, fishing, or hiking. I love the benefits of our huge economy and how it has lifted many people out of debt and poverty worldwide. But it also comes with problems. We are in a make-take-waste economy. The amount of waste at the end of your curb is dwarfed by what’s happening on an industrial level. I have a five-and-a-half-year-old daughter who loves the outdoors as much as I do. I believe one of the big reasons we’re here is to take care of this beautiful planet. I want my daughter to have the same opportunities to enjoy wildlife, nature, and clean water. We ingest a credit card’s worth of plastic through our drinking water each week. We have major issues with chemicals, PFAS, and waste buildup in our oceans and water. At an industrial level, if we can help people recycle and keep things out of landfills, it’s huge. Recycling material, whether it’s aluminum, plastic, or wood from pallets, helps conserve the planet for future generations. It’s a mission I believe many people are waking up to.
Bob Alvarez (08:25.159): How has your role and passion affected how you approach things differently since you started this journey?
Tim Ridderbos (08:39.861): This transition has been a challenge for me in all the best ways. When I started, I was an individual producer, a sales guy. As the company evolved and I had opportunities to experiment and learn, the biggest shift has been building a team doing different things with a steep learning curve. My challenge has been to get better at disseminating information, helping others, and leveraging Shapiro’s tools for the team’s benefit so they can do a good job for their customers.
Bob Alvarez (09:48.295): More specifically, has this caused changes at home or work? Are you approaching things from a circular standpoint differently? How has that evolved?
Tim Ridderbos (10:03.893) Sure, back when I was a Caterpillar rep, we joked about always having our equipment radar on, constantly looking at job sites and comparing equipment. Now, my family and I have our recycling radar on. My daughter can identify recycling yards, and we call them that instead of scrap yards. She points out litter and is into recycling at home. Professionally, we used to focus solely on metal in customers’ facilities. Now, we’re dumpster diving, so to speak. We had an opportunity in Atlanta where we noticed 75% of the trash was cardboard. We collected data, did a full analysis, and helped the customer bail the cardboard, getting revenue from it and significantly reducing trash pickups. This saved tens of thousands of dollars. Professionally, we’re looking at more materials and opportunities than before, no longer having blinders on to just metal.
Bob Alvarez (13:50.151): It sounds like you and Circular by Shapiro are fully committed. What is Circular by Shapiro striving for?
Tim Ridderbos (14:01.525) Circular by Shapiro aims for two main things. First, we want to build the most efficient supply network for material to flow, whether through a Shapiro plant or a partner plant, keeping as much material out of the landfill as possible. Second, with legislation like CSRD in Europe and Scopes 1, 2, and 3 here, there’s a growing hunger for data and measurement. We are developing robust data reporting systems so customers can understand and improve their sustainability metrics over time.
Bob Alvarez (15:50.439): You mentioned helping a customer go to zero landfill and optimizing waste streams with data. Can you explain what Circular by Shapiro specifically does?
Tim Ridderbos (16:19.701) It starts with understanding the data. Unlike traditional engagements based on RFQs and spreadsheets, we take a consultative approach. We strive to understand the current state of things and what’s missing from the data. We analyze each material stream and build a network to handle it efficiently. We aim to be the single point of contact for waste management, providing high-level reports and helping customers improve. For example, we built a training document for a customer with 350 sites to help them segregate materials and improve processes. This comprehensive program funnels into a single data set to help our customers.
Bob Alvarez (18:57.319): That’s outstanding. How long have you been at this?
Tim Ridderbos (19:03.381) Seven years now.
Bob Alvarez (20:11.559): Thank you.
Judy Ferraro (21:46.85): Because he’s a movie star!
Tim Ridderbos (21:49.561): I’m going to go ahead and close the video.
Bob Alvarez (22:15.783): No, I think you’re right.
Tim Ridderbos (22:15.861) Good.
Bob Alvarez (22:21.127): I think the questions, I’m not defending anything. I think the questions are there. I think if we could, like, for example, the next question is going to be, what kind of impact has Circular by Shapiro been able to make? If we need to go back and ask the question about what is…
Bob Alvarez (22:51.655) what is circular by Shapiro, you know, going all the way back and asking how that links to circular strategies. I would rather the stories explain how we connect with circular strategies. Now I could be 100 % wrong, because I’m not thinking about the audience, but that’s how I’m kind of thinking, is that work?
Bob Alvarez (23:26.439): That’s right.
Bob Alvarez (23:37.145): You’re dead right. You know, we know what it all is, so we totally skipped over it. Do we go back? Go ahead, Judy.
Judy Ferraro (23:47.394): Let’s begin it by saying this is our first podcast, and no better guest than the person that is responsible for Circular by Shapiro at our company and his journey from where he was a year ago or two years ago or whatever it is until he is now. Then, those questions all make sense if you give a little something at the beginning.
And then I think it’s in terms of social media, I can pull all sorts of stuff that’s already come up. Yeah. So, so just little sound bites and stuff like that are going to be awesome. And, and I think, I think Monty’s really right when you, when you talked about that credit card pause, because that is, and then think about that, you know, like get the audience.
Now, a person that Bob is interviewing might not say that. Bob can say it. Think about that. What do you mean? What do you mean that we ingest a credit card every day? And is it OK, Monty, if Bob writes notes while Tim’s talking? OK. And I would always ask and say, do you mind if I write notes so that the whole audience knows that’s what you’re doing, that you’re not writing a letter to your mom?
Bob Alvarez (24:55.175): Thank you.
Judy Ferraro (25:26.27): I love you.
Bob Alvarez (25:47.463): I wondered when you were going to tell me about that.
Bob Alvarez (26:06.183): Yeah.
Judy Ferraro (26:37.378) But it was good. I mean, everything was good.
Bob Alvarez (27:00.007): I’m going to keep going. I’ll start with the one question about, you know, this is circular strategies podcast. What’s your view or what is circular by Shapiro’s circular strategies or something like that. And then we’ll go right back into the flow, but make it more conversational.
Tim Ridderbos (27:25.685) And just one second, Bob, before you hit it, I’m taking a note here. So that was, I appreciate you guys sharing all that. Then, you know, a couple of places we could go, Bob, as we continue is, you know, I’ve got a really interesting stat if we go back to why we’re doing this about animals and the amount of like natural stuff that’s still in the world. Yeah, definitely. If we talk about the circularity, it’d be fun to get into the MacArthur diagram. And then yes, why is circularity important? You know, that’s all really.
Bob Alvarez (27:59.239) Good. So Tim, welcome again to the Circular Strategies Podcast. And I was wondering, how does Circular by Shapiro interact with Circular Strategies? What are you guys doing to make the planet better?
Tim Ridderbos (28:19.989) Yeah, great question.
Tim Ridderbos (28:28.245) I think that question begs for a definition of circularity. There are many perspectives, but for us, it’s about reusing material over and over again as many times as possible. For example, recycling aluminum takes 80-90% less energy than mining and processing new aluminum. Moreover, the process of making new aluminum produces twice the amount of toxic sludge as the aluminum itself. So, finding circular options for materials is crucial. It’s not just aluminum; think about wooden pallets. Reusing them is better than grinding them into mulch. We aim to keep materials in use for as long as possible, maximizing their value.
Bob Alvarez (30:54.183) So when you talk about circularity, is Shapiro strictly doing recycling? Are you also repurposing or extending the life of products?
Tim Ridderbos (31:18.133) We’re doing more than just recycling. I thought I knew recycling after five years in the business, but formal education in sustainability showed me it’s more than that. The Ellen MacArthur Foundation’s butterfly diagram explains the levels of recycling and sustainability, from recycling to refurbishment to reuse and simple maintenance. Recycling, in fact, is the lowest score. The real goal is to reuse materials at their highest and best use for as long as possible.
Bob Alvarez (32:05.095) Is this an opportunity or a threat to your business?
Tim Ridderbos (32:11.477) It’s 100% an opportunity. Reusing materials, like refurbishing pallets instead of grinding them into mulch, is far better. We’re always looking for creative solutions beyond recycling to maximize the use of materials already harvested.
Bob Alvarez (33:04.935) In your role, are you doing anything that no one else is doing?
Tim Ridderbos (33:15.413) I think so. We have an open-minded approach and sometimes help customers improve their products to last longer. For example, we work with a customer to collect and test failed air conditioning units, report fail points to their engineers, and help them extend the product’s life. This goes beyond recycling and reuse; it’s about making products better.
Bob Alvarez (34:47.527) So knowing what you know now, what are the real problems that need to be resolved in the short term?
Tim Ridderbos (34:55.765) The first is data. Waste is often the lowest priority at manufacturing facilities. Even when we offer significant savings, it’s hard to get their attention. We need to focus on the right sustainable problems at the right time. It takes time and consistency to help manufacturers see the opportunities.
Bob Alvarez (36:12.647) Is it about cost and profit, or is there a different value that hasn’t been realized yet?
Tim Ridderbos (36:28.917) The equation is evolving. At a recent circularity conference, I saw many young people in high positions at large brands passionate about sustainability. As demographics shift, there will be more people at high levels who care about reducing landfill waste and reusing materials. Combining the sustainability story with the savings story is essential.
Bob Alvarez (38:54.471) What are the typical obstacles you encounter? Are the problems technical, scientific, or people-related?
Tim Ridderbos (39:21.749) The biggest obstacle is the lack of spotlight on waste. In modern factories, there are KPIs for production but none for waste. The person moving material needs reporting and technology to measure and improve waste management. We need to run waste management like the manufacturing side, with technology and AI-enabled cameras to identify and address waste.
Bob Alvarez (41:48.967) Have you implemented any of this? What kind of success have you had?
Tim Ridderbos (42:04.597) Yes, we have. For instance, we helped a customer reduce trash pickups by 400 per year and save mid-six figures by recycling cardboard and optimizing payloads. The technology to measure and manage waste is exciting, but we’re still developing it. There are many people exploring solutions, and I hope to see them come to fruition.
Bob Alvarez (43:12.583): Do you have any interesting experiments that could be game-changing?
Tim Ridderbos (43:36.565): We have an interesting experiment with a customer who produces custom wood dunnage. They’re paying to landfill it, but we found that refurbishing and reusing this wood is more valuable per pound than their aluminum scrap. We’re in the early stages, but this could be an incredible program.
Bob Alvarez (45:39.623): Is Circular by Shapiro happy with its progress so far? What’s next?
Tim Ridderbos (45:48.573): It’s hard to be satisfied with progress because there’s always more to do. The opportunities are endless, and things are changing quickly. I’m happy with how we’ve rethought business and our reps’ interactions with customers, but there’s still a lot to learn and achieve.
Bob Alvarez (46:38.119) Given the rapid evolution of technology, what’s the next big thing for Circular by Shapiro and the industry?
Tim Ridderbos (47:36.053): The next big thing is going places we haven’t been before. I recently spoke with a lobbying firm about the Inflation Reduction Act and its funding for recyclers. We’re making connections with people developing incredible technology and building a super ecosystem of technology, services, and consulting to help customers achieve more circularity and recycling.
Bob Alvarez (49:08.103): What’s next for you?
Tim Ridderbos (49:10.677) I’ve been blessed to pursue a master’s in sustainability, which has been eye-opening. I’ve learned shocking statistics, like only 4% of mammals on the planet are wild. We have big challenges to address, and the larger platform we can get to help more people, especially manufacturers, think differently is where we want to go.
Bob Alvarez (50:58.663): What is impossible today that you think will occur in the next five years?
Tim Ridderbos (51:09.845): I think we’ll see AI-enabled cameras and instant KPIs on waste management. Better circularity programs, like returning Amazon boxes when new packages are delivered, will become more important. Better reporting and designing for circularity upfront are also crucial. We need to think about the second life of products and materials from the start, as Caterpillar does with its equipment.
Bob Alvarez (53:16.167): That’s an interesting point. Where do you go to learn and stay current?
Tim Ridderbos (54:06.037) Formal education is great, and there are many inexpensive online classes. Conferences and webinars are also helpful. For anyone in the recycled materials space, REMA is an incredible resource with classes and webinars on various topics. Learning opportunities are abundant there.
Bob Alvarez (55:35.527) And for anyone wanting to connect with you or Circular by Shapiro, how can they do that?
Tim Ridderbos (55:43.829) Find me on LinkedIn. I’m pretty active there. Send me a message, and let’s talk.
Bob Alvarez (55:55.687): Was there something I should have asked you that I didn’t?
Tim Ridderbos (55:59.229) I’d like to ask you, Shapiro’s tagline is “making the planet better together.” What was the process for coming up with that, and why is it important to us as an organization?
Bob Alvarez (56:17.287) Making the planet better together is about reducing waste, protecting natural resources, and working collaboratively. Our purpose was developed with input from a third of our company, and it’s a true reflection of who we are.
Bob Alvarez (57:48.885): What do you hope our listeners will take away from this conversation?
Tim Ridderbos (57:57.885): I hope people see the endless opportunities in the recycled materials industry. For our manufacturing customers, there’s a lot of low-hanging fruit in waste management. My job is to make heroes out of our customers by helping them tell their sustainability stories. Every individual has a stake in addressing the planet’s big challenges. Collaboration, open-mindedness, and willingness to take on new challenges are key to making progress.
Bob Alvarez (59:21.607): Well, Tim, thank you for your time today.
Tim Ridderbos (59:24.149) Thanks, Bob.